Sanctuary International Sanctuary International and Intense Radio Online Community     Sanctuary International :: Intense Forums :: CULTURE  President Hillary?     Goto page :   1, 2, 3, 4, 5   Author Message Paladin Joined : 22 Jul 2007 Posts : 22 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:25 am Interesting all around. Let's keep it going. Starting with Vexx. Quote: Though I dont want to cause any hard feelings with any of the old timers on here (being one myself) I have to speak up about your posts....Paladan, There is too many 100% valid points that you made for me to comment on. The voice of reason , well thought out answers....Truth that might hurt, but truth nonetheless. I hope I don't cause any hard feelings either. That said, thank you. I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. While technically born of the modern times, my frame of mind and how I was brought up are from a different period. A long lost period, even. For example the town I was raised in, thankfully, has been perpetually stuck in the 1950's. At least it was then, not so much any longer. The bastions of what they would term capitalistic "success" have slowly but surely been taking over that area, eroding it into another faceless look alike manufactured town. Am I holding onto certain aesthetics of a historic period? Absolutely. It worked. It was the epitome of America, American. An observation/question. For anyone. How many of your neighbors do you know? People in the town, even the next block. If you have children, and let's say they're playing a couple blocks away or on the other end of town... How many people in that area by any chance do you know well enough they'd call you on their own free will to let you know your children are playing in that area and safe? It's this darn thing called community. You're not gonna find it hardly anymore. Much less in some recently sprouted suburbia, where all the houses look alike and the biggest issue is who has the nicest car on the street. Quote: Your thoughts of leaving a country that CHOOSES to fall to the crimes of capitolism is quite honorable. Again, thank you. It's ironic actually. My grandparents came here because America was great. Looked apon as perhaps the greatest. Through nothing but hard work and lots of it they built something special, timeless even. Quote: Though my Fatherland that I would re-locate to would be Germany/Scotland/Norway, I understand your point. Nice countries, certainly. Despite their Muslim invasions they still maintain their culture by God. Quote: I'm against any form of socialism based on government mentality. I know that if you read the book of Acts seeing how the church worked around things, everyone shared everything. However, if you take a look at how it was done, no one was forced to "give away" anything. It was not out of duty that anyone gave up their resources to support the struggling first church. The sin of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 was not that they didn't give away all that was theirs, but rather that they lied about how much they gave, claiming it was the full amount. That is all well and good. I actually agree, non-Governmental Socialism is a good thing and needed moreso. What I disagree on is the Gov't part. Gov't instituting Socialist ideals isn't a bad thing per se, provided there is a fair balance. The problem arises when this side wants 100% of this, that side 100% of that. Then we just get stalemates. Or we get an extreme of one side or the other and it fails. Quote: I never made a dime during the 90's except when I worked for the Internal Revenue Service, and I hated that job with a passion. I'm sorry to hear that. There certainly were no shortages of jobs at the time, at least not like now. Quote: I was being paid a good salary, but it seemed like too much for simply shuffling papers around for the secretary. In other words, it was a $7/hour job that should've been worth $3/hour, but because of minimum wage requirements, the job paid more than it was worth. I disagree. Any job that NEEDS to be done is worth a livable wage. Minimum wage is a nessesity, however still sorely lacking in the livable department. Without minimum wage that job along with others WOULD be $3/hr. Many others. Obviously the goal of people like Bush, but something i'll always fight against. Anyone who puts in a days work for a days wages deserves wages commensurate with the local economy at minimum. Sadly one more thing Americans tear each other up over, even though livable wages are one of the many positives of "Socialistic" ideals. Quote: Several years after I graduated from Fresno State University, I got a job that wasn't able to pay me what it was worth, but it was a good start for a possible career. This is why the employees deserve a voice. So THEY can get what they are worth, and what the job is worth. Once apon a time that was widely accepted. Obviously no longer, but it origionally was with good reason. Without the employee, not another number but another human being and individual, having a voice they'll GET $3/HR. Or be replaced. It's simple. Quote: Now, here's what I'm hopefully trying to say and still be coherent. There's plenty of blame to go around on politicians, but there's a lot of blame that falls on us when we elect politicians who give us "everything we want." I would agree, if we actually got whatever it is we want. We don't. One side promises us one thing and one certain group gets all of it, the other promises us another thing and gives it all to the wealthy. Because according to an actor acting, the more Gov't gives the wealthy the more Americans get. Not exactly. Again, balance. There needs to be a balance. Where is that balance? That remains to be seen. Until we stop playing political games we won't find out for 100% certain. Quote: We are all selfish by nature, and we'll do anything to line our pockets regardless of what's going on in the culture, and whether our leaders stand firm on moral and social issues. Again, this is fairly new. Starting from the 1960's moving foreward. Our "leaders", who usually aren't even leaders to begin with, have no morals. They proclaim they do. They act like they do. They don't. Because politics distilled to its very essense is amoral. A political office is essentially another employee, Americans being the employer. We hire them for our benefit much like any employer. We want this, this, this, and that. A majority has hired you for that job. Do it. You have four years. Don't do it and you are fired. Instead we get a corporate entity taking the job only doing what benefits them. Theirs. Everything else, including moral stances is filler. It's of no substance. They're waving this hand while doing THEIR deals with the other hand. In return emotion driven people decide to hire them based on moralistic ideals. My point? It honestly isn't Gov'ts position to institute any sort of morality. It is to uphold the Constitution and what made America great. If people honestly are pro-life it is up to them to Educate. Educate until nobody is doing it any longer and that facet of life goes out of business. No more abortion. Simple. That works for a vast majority of the Republican "moral" agenda. However as I said, picking morality here and there, then rationalizing the rest? Doesn't work. Either you are moral or you're not. Either you truly love America or you don't. There can be no in between. Quote: People got rich during the 90's at the expense of the moral failures that were going on. See above. See recent history. There has been one President in the last 50 years, at the LEAST, who has succeeded at morality. His name is Jimmy Carter. One. He is also regarded as a terrible President, overwhelmed and unable to fix the multitude of mistake and mishap dumped into his lap from the previous Presidents. As I am pretty sure you're alluding to the Right-Wing propaganda mill, that likes to paint this revisionist history where Bill Clinton was the first shot fired in the erosion of moralist culture, it isn't true. It was never true. Moral relativity and morally failing started under the Republicans watch, on the Republicans dime. Bill Clinton much like George W. Bush in a sense as well as McCain or Hussein, whichever takes charge are all symptoms of such really. Quote: These days, we have more regulations and more taxes, They are nessesary. While the tax system DOES need overhauled. The money needs to actually go for public good as it was intended. As for regulations, it is nessesary. Always will be nessesary. In fact I would say we need MORE regulation. That is, more regulation slanted towards benefitting American owned, American located businesses. Quote: and any good economist knows that if you put more burdens on goods and services, they end up costing more to the consumer. Ahhh yes, good old economists. I too enjoy reading up on their ideology, in small doses. The problem with most, they are idealists instead of realists. What they pen to paper certainly LOOKS good, and reads quite well the more life experience I gain the more I realize what i've perhaps already known, there is a huge gap between their ideology and reality. The whole cost/effect rational? It is one part daydreaming, one part propaganda. The fallacy begins with that being universal. It is not. Further along the trail it isn't the action taken that causes the price to rise. At least not in every single situation. The action creates an excuse for a reaction. It is theexact same with the minimum wage is bad fallacy. Certainly if the companies paying out minimum wage adjusted and ONLY they adjusted it would hold at least a little weight. Except when it becomes an easy excuse for businesses and industries who DON'T pay minimum wage to raise their costs, not wages, not benefits one bit, but costs. All that said to illustrate a point. The so called "good" economists have their utopia. Corporate owns and controls everything. The utopia has arrived. What is it we now have had not once, not twice, not even three times but four times? Recession. That little thing they claimed to be rid of. 28 years and four recessions. One certainly nobodies fault in politics or larger society(9/11), three others the fault of the capitalistic fantasy. "Good" economists claimed THEIR idealogy would create more jobs, higher pay, ect. It didn't. It failed. Jobs are gone. Cost of living is through the roof while wages haven't changed in a decade. Now what is the one thing these economists proclaim as the answer to ALL our problems? The grand plan that supposedly benefits everyone? An open market. What has eroded America? What has been root cause for recession after recession, rising unemployment, lower wages, ect? An open market. They're not even 100% there yet and it has failed. It failed because it created a wide open nexus wherein corporate has control. Where they can, and now do, just relocate operations to another country. To even... 3rd world countries where they can pay nickles a day instead of a decent wage to an American who is now unemployed. Their ideology doesn't work. It never will. What works is what has worked before. You close ports. You close borders. Oh sure, they can move out of America if they want to, they still have that right. Only they SHOULD rightfully be heavily penalized for it. At minimum 50% import tax. The tax breaks? The big breaks and loyalty and all that should go to the business that ARE American and above all stay American. Certainly continue exporting, that DOES benefit us. Importing EVERYTHING? Not one bit. Put it this way if you want a recession proof economy, Americans working instead of unemployed and a vibrant country it boils down to you having to keep it American. Other countries already understand that. To not do so truly is insane. Any American economy needs to be pro-American first and foremost. This means regulation. This means tariffs and heavy taxes for predators. This means preventing corporate monopolies and interests. This means skewing it so as any American who operates or wishes to operate a small business can do so without a larger business being able to crush them. Small businesses can hold up the economy. Small businesses are the American ideal. Granted my history is a tad rusty but for the life of me I cannot recall that revised part of Republican history where Americans came here to crowd into suburban neighborhoods and work for large corporations. I remember them coming here and building their own businesses, though. Building actual communities. Hope this isn't all way too long.   LadyRocker Age : 37 Joined : 15 Jul 2007 Posts : 255 Location : Visalia CA Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:27 am Quote: Any job that NEEDS to be done is worth a livable wage. Minimum wage is a nessesity, however still sorely lacking in the livable department. Without minimum wage that job along with others WOULD be $3/hr. Many others. Obviously the goal of people like Bush, but something i'll always fight against. Anyone who puts in a days work for a days wages deserves wages commensurate with the local economy at minimum. Sadly one more thing Americans tear each other up over, even though livable wages are one of the many positives of "Socialistic" ideals. This was a starting job. It wasn't supposed to be a living wage job. It wasn't worth the $7/hr I was getting because it was just busywork for the secretary. It was something to start me off. Should I have gone further in training, maybe I could've worked my way up. That's the way it should be. Most people who work at McDonald's don't expect to stay there for the rest of their lives. If they have goals in mind, they want to work their way up to the top. That's the ideal. Some people are willing to step on others to get there, but in the end, the private sector, not the government needs to hold people to task. This is a poor example, but the American Family Association and other groups targeted the Ford Motor Co. for not taking a neutral stance on the homosexual issue, but rather celebrating it. As a result, sales have dropped tremendously, and people have thought twice before buying Ford products. Quote: This is why the employees deserve a voice. So THEY can get what they are worth, and what the job is worth. Once apon a time that was widely accepted. Obviously no longer, but it origionally was with good reason. Without the employee, not another number but another human being and individual, having a voice they'll GET $3/HR. Or be replaced. It's simple. I REALLY take offense to this because the church I was at could NOT afford to hire me for what I was worth. Right now, they're barely even making ends meet! My wages were low simply because of my SSI payments. Like I said, this will look good on a resume, and if a job should come along that pays well, I have experience. It was more fulfilling than the SSI job that paid more than what I was worth simply because someone said I should be paid that. I'm not going to demand my rights because it was a privilege to work for them! They needed someone right away because they were desparate, and I happened to have business cards that I passed around at the time. I never realized it would turn into a job. It's not the ideal, but what's money worth when you do what you love doing? It's late, and I don't have a whole lot of time to get into this because I'm tired, but when I get the chance, we'll discuss this more.   Paladin Joined : 22 Jul 2007 Posts : 22 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:11 pm Alright gave it a few days now i'll jump back in. Quote: This was a starting job. It wasn't supposed to be a living wage job. It wasn't worth the $7/hr I was getting because it was just busywork for the secretary. Once again I reiterate any job that needs to be done is worth a fair, livable wage. Should I say it again? ANY job that NEEDS to be done is worth a FAIR and LIVABLE wage. The Gov't needs those papers filed. They thus need to supply good pay for that. For YOU maybe it was a starting job. For another person? Perhaps a single mother with kids? It could be the ONLY job available at the time. Of course the rightwing ideology would be her working 80 hours a week, two of those $3/hr jobs in order to pay the bills. Kinda like communism. That's not how it works. That isn't how America was founded. Quote: That's the way it should be. Perhaps it should be. No doubt people should have to work their way up. The problem is the whole ideal I guess you're trying to promote to me prevents that. A minimum wageless, unregulated, open globalist market prevents that. Nobody will have the time nor available funds TO move up the ladder. They'll be making that $3/hr across the board because hey, Firefighters are just holding a hose towards some fire, a $3/hr job. Mechanic? Oh you're just fixing cars that's not worth anything. Not like you're the guy slaving over the golf course 10+ hours a day "making ends meet" with your $3+ million a year corporation. No dice. The same way Gov't shouldn't be able to control all of our lives, the same with corporations. Which is what the neocon capitalistic agenda wants to replace Gov't with. It's already taking place. Already failing. Over and over and over and over again. Quote: Most people who work at McDonald's don't expect to stay there for the rest of their lives. Considering McDonalds is a racist corporation who gives preferential hiring to non-English speaking illegals instead of the traditional high school kids? Bad example. I'm pretty sure those current employees making $5.15/hr are hoping they can stay there forever. Quote: they have goals in mind, they want to work their way up to the top. That's the ideal. McDonald's employees? Yeah they got goals in mind. Not getting deported. The rest? Americans do have goals. That's not the problem. The problem again is the capitalistic theory and pipe dreams of everything privatized, corporations holding control, no minimum they have to pay people and so on nobody WILL rise to the top. They won't. It'll be no different then Cuba or Russia. We'll just work 80 hours a week, 40 going towards paying for healthcare the rest trying to afford ramen noodles and the rent. That might be some peoples idea of utopia, I can asure you it isn't and never was the Founding Fathers idea of utopia. We've already been through the eroding of American Culture and war waged on small business and workers. Small business being something that will cease to exist. The Culture already almost nonexistant. Distracting the Middle Class while supplanting consumerism for culture? It isn't positive, nor something to be proud of. That gap between low class and middle class is already shrinking, not because the low class is moving UP. The opposite. Quote: Some people are willing to step on others to get there, Most people. The majority of corporations. THE ideal of capitalism. Quote: but in the end, the private sector, not the government needs to hold people to task. No the people need to hold the people, as well as the corporations to task. The way you worded it is quite nice, actually. But we both know the republicans mean "the corporate oadrooms" when they state private sector. The World still doesn't work that way. America doesn't work that way. It never has. That's why we unionized in the first place. One could argue unions have fallen into the same corporatist trap which they have. If that means the people have to use Gov't as their voice until a workable alternative is created and implimented so be it. Quote: I REALLY take offense to this I don't know what to tell you about that. If you're that easily offended then perhaps you shouldn't be trying to debate something as offensive as politics to begin with. Quote: the church I was at could NOT afford to hire me for what I was worth. Right now, they're barely even making ends meet! A few questions. What kinda car does the head pastor drive? How big is his house and in what kind of neighborhood? What brand of suits and watches does he wear? Quote: My wages were low simply because of my SSI payments. Like I said, this will look good on a resume, and if a job should come along that pays well, I have experience. It was more fulfilling than the SSI job that paid more than what I was worth simply because someone said I should be paid that. But wait. You're Republican, no? That's why we're debating is it not? If so then what's up with taking SSI checks? Afterall the republican ideology is you don't need it. If you're breathing you can go work and support yourself is it not? Quote: I'm not going to demand my rights because it was a privilege to work for them! I'm sure it was a privilege to underpay you, as well. Apparently a win/win situation. Although the next job you get with semi decent pay and benefits, and hell the SSI checks? You're welcome. Courtesy of us Americans who DID stand up and demand what is right to be done. Quote: It's not the ideal, but what's money worth when you do what you love doing? Ask those whom don't have it. Ask those Americans unemployed in MI because Ford DID take the republican way and moved to Mexico how much money is worth and if they'd rather do what they love or still have their futures, retirements they paid into they'll never see. Wages that paid the bills. Insurance for their families. It means just as much to those without it then it does to those with the majority who DO have it. The political different? Democrats don't care anymore and Republicans, all of which reside in that upper bracket, want ALL the money while those with hardly any have even less. Welcome to modern day slavery. To use a current example, the republican posterchild the Walton Family. They average about what, $300,000-$500,000 per day per store? How many stores they have again? One in about every city and town, over 200 I believe at last count. Monopolies. One building running 4-10 different businesses under one umbrella. So on average 4-10 less small business around in that town. Their goal and THEIR ideal is control of all the jobs in that area. The way I see it you've chosen to make yourself the only game in town for everything, thus the only employer left in that town then yeah you need to pay livable wages and give the workers good benefits. Doesn't matter if the jobs are basic skills jobs or not. You made the choice to f' over town after town. Destroy land. Build monopolies. Run the entire local economy. You're responsible for paying out commensurate with the costs of living. If Gov't has to get involved eventually? So be it. Last I checked America wasn't created so a select few families could own and control all of it. Hence that whole freedom and liberty stuff.   switchbladeknitter Joined : 13 Nov 2007 Posts : 423 Location : through the looking glass Age : 29 and holding!! Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:36 pm :::bangs head on desk::: What started as an interesting lighthearted conversation has become way more than I even care to get into. The world is the way it is, and we're just trying to make the best of it. Everyone is free to express themselves and I totally respect that right, but I am forced to listen to talk radio all day while my husband drives and the once or twice a week I come online I come here to unwind. Think of me what you will, if I wanted to get into topics like this, this deeply I'd be on some political forum. _________________ Life and death, energy and peace. If I stop today it was still worth it. Even the terrible mistakes that I made and would have unmade if I could. The pains that have burned me and scarred my soul, it was worth it, for having been allowed to walk where I've walked, which was to hell on earth, heaven on earth, back again, into, under, far in between, through it, in it, and above. -Gia Carangi   LadyRocker Age : 37 Joined : 15 Jul 2007 Posts : 255 Location : Visalia CA Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:54 am Quote: A few questions. What kinda car does the head pastor drive? How big is his house and in what kind of neighborhood? What brand of suits and watches does he wear? I can see where you're going with this, so I'll be happy to oblige. His car got repo'ed last year because he couldn't make the car payments. He has had to take on a second job because the church couldn't afford to pay him, either. He took a cut in salary a couple of years ago so the church could get back on its feet. In that time, he had to take on a second job just so he could feed his family and pay the bills. His best friend got him a job as a painter, something that he did before he was asked to be the church pastor. Now, rather than use the company painting truck (he complains about it being a gas guzzler), he's decided to take the bus wherever he goes. And on the way, he meets people who need Jesus just like you and me. There are a lot of down-sides to taking public transportation (I have to do it myself since I'm partially blind), but there are upsides to it as well. And for a pastor to meet other people who are unsaved, this is a plus. I've been with this church for 5 years, so before you make audacious statements like the ones I quoted from you, you had better think before you jump to conclusions.   PeacethroughX Joined : 24 May 2007 Posts : 452 Location : Charlotte, NC Age : old enough! Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:03 am switchbladeknitter wrote: :::bangs head on desk::: What started as an interesting lighthearted conversation has become way more than I even care to get into. The world is the way it is, and we're just trying to make the best of it. Everyone is free to express themselves and I totally respect that right, but I am forced to listen to talk radio all day while my husband drives and the once or twice a week I come online I come here to unwind. Think of me what you will, if I wanted to get into topics like this, this deeply I'd be on some political forum. It's okay, dear girl, it is only ONE thread! Paladin is strongly opined, but he is a gentleman. Don't take the "tone" of his conversation to be anything but respectful and polite, even if his words are strong and direct. I know him from other boards and he is quite a fun guy. For everyone: we are here to encourage one another, even though we have differing opinions. No conversion is trying to take place except that which brings souls to Christ. The body of Christ is diverse - even politically - and that diversity is needed to reach all the different people we need to reach, just as Paul taught. Our differences should make us stronger, not divisive. Let's keep that in the back of our mind at all times when we post. _________________ "Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you— majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?" Exodus 15:11 http://www.achurchforthecity.org "I don't reject your Christ, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi   Paladin Joined : 22 Jul 2007 Posts : 22 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:21 pm Quote: What started as an interesting lighthearted conversation has become way more than I even care to get into. The world is the way it is, and we're just trying to make the best of it. Everyone is free to express themselves and I totally respect that right, but I am forced to listen to talk radio all day while my husband drives and the once or twice a week I come online I come here to unwind. Think of me what you will, if I wanted to get into topics like this, this deeply I'd be on some political forum. I can respect that. IMO the thread has actually been pretty pleasant, but that's just me. Alot of good discussion. Which honestly you won't find on any political boards, they don't have discourse, just nyanya i'm right NOOOO!!!! I'M RIGHT! And so on. I understand how you feel though and respect that. Honestly I have to deal with politics(the literal kind) with my job everyday, so I can understand needing a break. Quote: so before you make audacious statements like the ones I quoted from you, you had better think before you jump to conclusions. It was neither audacious nor a statement, it was a mere series of questions so as to gain insight into that of which you stated. Oh, and I do think. Always. Even when i'm asleep. Now that is one of several times now you've tried throwing attitude towards me. It won't work. It's a decent enough effort, I suppose, but still won't work. To counter, I suggest you place the thinking cap on yourself and change your attitude. Quote: Paladin is strongly opined, but he is a gentleman. Don't take the "tone" of his conversation to be anything but respectful and polite, even if his words are strong and direct. I know him from other boards and he is quite a fun guy. Danke. I appreciate that. You're correct, I am direct and to the point. Always. I'm also respectful and HAVE been respectful in this thread. Not sure really why the attitude or the "i'm offended" card has been pulled in this discussion. I thought it was going pretty well. But alas it seems to have taken its course.   PeacethroughX Joined : 24 May 2007 Posts : 452 Location : Charlotte, NC Age : old enough! Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:43 pm Quote: Not sure really why the attitude or the "i'm offended" card has been pulled in this discussion. Paladin, you and I are alike with our plain talk and directness. On message boards, it is very easy for that directness to have a "tone" that is taken completely differently than the spirit in which it was given. Quote: To counter, I suggest... Nope, no countering. This makes it personal and that would be a thread killer. Get off the personal (both of you), get back on the topic, and on with the conversation. {{said gently, with a hug}} _________________ "Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you— majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?" Exodus 15:11 http://www.achurchforthecity.org "I don't reject your Christ, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi   Jim Burns Age : 42 Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 436 Location : Back in the 80's forever Age : 42 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:37 am ......Slaps Paladin on the back......... You say the things that I think except you use great tact and very indepth wording..... I guess Im trying to say "You are what I would be if I was smart enough to be it". _________________ ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~ A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself (A.W. Tozer) ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ Metalvikng's Myspace site. http://www.myspace.com/jimburns65 My blog mirror for those without myspace. http://jb8814.livejournal.com   MetalheaD Age : 14 Joined : 22 Feb 2008 Posts : 640 Location : crushed velvet coffin, KY Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:22 pm idk...yeah, i mean you hear clinton and its always followed by a sharp intake of breath but obama is a...what? agnostic? i mean...to have some kind of christian beliefs is a good thing. i think dave should be president!! w00T!!! http://www.daveramsey.com _________________ hakuna matatta.   headoverheelsforgod88 Age : 19 Joined : 23 Feb 2008 Posts : 223 Location : Ashland, Kentucky/ Young Harris, Ga Age : 19 1/2 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:23 pm yea!!! _________________ Perfection: To never see it snow, or ever feel the rain again, To never be in love, or having to explain again, To not have to cover my face so you won't see my pain, that would be perfection.   Paladin Joined : 22 Jul 2007 Posts : 22 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:14 pm Quote: Paladin, you and I are alike with our plain talk and directness. On message boards, it is very easy for that directness to have a "tone" that is taken completely differently than the spirit in which it was given. Indeed. I did however strive to not do so, which is why it's strange it was taken that way. Quote: Nope, no countering. This makes it personal and that would be a thread killer. Get off the personal (both of you), get back on the topic, and on with the conversation. I think the thread might already be dead! What's said is said and what it's morphed into is something different. Quote: You say the things that I think except you use great tact and very indepth wording..... I guess Im trying to say "You are what I would be if I was smart enough to be it". Aha but Jim, you ARE smart enough! You just haven't realized that yet. One day though you're going to realize you're smarter then you think, then you'll give yourself some credit, then you too will make essay length posts. Quote: obama is a...what? agnostic? Well he claims he is Christian. However his life seems to consistently go counter to that. He was raised under Muslim rule and schooling. Now he says he is Christian. I'd likely be willing to say okay, you say you are you are. Considering the church he belongs to and their affinity and allied partnership with the neo-terrorist Nation Of Islam and Farrakhan racism, it raises red flags as it should. Recently a photograph has surfaced of him dressed as an African tribesman in Africa. Compiled with his ehem, colorful background, being essentially a Kenyan, not an American, and his wifes ignorant statements there is some questions people should ask themselves. Namely is the guy whose whole history shows time and again an affinity for if not outright belief in the black power identity movement complete with what appears to be loyalty towards Africa, not America, the right choice for running America? Ask yourself why he's tried albeit poorly to hide all of that. Is the Church he attends just a front FOR the Nation of Islam and is he really just a covert Muslim? These are important questions. You're really 14? That's good. You get to sit out this cycle, argueably the worst election cycle since the entire 1980's. The next one? It's gonna be dangerously important. Make no mistake so is THIS one but the damage appears to be already done. We're going to have alot to recover from in 2012. 8 years of Dubya compounded by at least 4 years of Barrack Hussein OR John McCain. Use your next four years to form your own opinion though, don't just take mine or anyone elses word for it.   LadyRocker Age : 37 Joined : 15 Jul 2007 Posts : 255 Location : Visalia CA Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:52 pm People DO tend to say a lot of things without thinking, which is most of us, Paladin, so it didn't surprise me. Are you old enough to run for President? If so, maybe you should start a campaign. If you want to implement the type of changes you desire, then you should be the one to set the standard and start planning. Ever thought about having a career in politics? I think if you want your ideas out in the forefront, then that would be an obvious step.   Jim Burns Age : 42 Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 436 Location : Back in the 80's forever Age : 42 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:10 pm apart from Paladins anti -National Socialist platform, Id vote for him LOL. _________________ ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~ A pharisee is hard on others and easy on himself, but a spiritual man is easy on others and hard on himself (A.W. Tozer) ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ Metalvikng's Myspace site. http://www.myspace.com/jimburns65 My blog mirror for those without myspace. http://jb8814.livejournal.com   Paladin Joined : 22 Jul 2007 Posts : 22 Subject: Re: President Hillary?   Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:29 pm Quote: People DO tend to say a lot of things without thinking, which is most of us, Paladin, so it didn't surprise me. I always think about what I am going to say. Quote: Are you old enough to run for President? If so, maybe you should start a campaign. To answer, no, i'm not old enough to run for POTUS. Even if I was i'm a realist, there would be no way I would win. I haven't the funds to go up against big business politicians like a Dubya, nor do I have media favor like Barrack Hussein. I'd possibly get a few thousand votes, perhaps, a long cry from what's needed to win. Quote: If you want to implement the type of changes you desire, then you should be the one to set the standard and start planning. I've been planning rest assured. In order to effect political change one has to change the minds of the common people. Which is what I aim to do at this time. Quote: Ever thought about having a career in politics? I think if you want your ideas out in the forefront, then that would be an obvious step. Honestly no, i've never considered the idea at any length. I've seen it all happen before, including really brilliant minds get involved politically. Before long even they became corrupted, throwing out the Aristotle and Thomas Paine for Ann Coulter and Michael Savage. Or the ideas of De Tocqueville for Michael Moore. That seems to be the nature of politics and truth be told getting America back on track might have to take place outside of politics. That machine could be too far gone. Maybe a nonviolent Revolution does need to take place. Quote: apart from Paladins anti -National Socialist platform, Id vote for him LOL. I appreciate the vote, Vade. Yes, I am. You're right about that. Especially when there is a much better more effective way where almost everyone wins.   President Hillary?     Page 3 of 5 Goto page :   1, 2, 3, 4, 5   Permissions of this forum: You cannot reply to topics in this forum Sanctuary International :: Intense Forums :: CULTURE Sanctuary International :: Intense Forums :: CULTURE Forum free | © phpbb | Free forum support | Report an abuse | To have a free blog