Isaiah 53 = Israel?

Subject: Isaiah 53 = Israel? Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:37 pm

I have many friends who are Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah to the Jews and the Savior of the world. However, the Orthodox community of Jews refuses to see Yeshua (Jesus) in the same light. A good example of this is Isaiah 53. I've done some of my own study of this passage, and I fail to see what the Orthodox community sees in this passage. Many have come to the conclusion that Isaiah the prophet is talking about Israel being the Suffering Servant, but in rendering this passage as such, you come to see a lot of errors.

Quote :: 3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

I suppose you COULD render this to be Israel. I mean, after all, Israel has suffered over the years due to persecution. Many of the antimissionaries on Paltalk have often used this to claim arrogantly that Israel, being the chosen of God was bound for suffering due to anti-Semitism. However, in reading further, you run into a few problems:

Quote :: 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Obviously, when Isaiah refers to "my people," he's talking about Israel, so how can Israel suffer for Israel? Another problem you encounter is "he was cut off from the land of the living." Israel has never ceased to be a great nation, though disobedient.

I could go on, but I have very little time on my hands. I will conclude, therefore, Isaiah's "suffering servant" is Jesus, not the nation of Israel.

Number of posts : 159 Registration date : 2007-07-12

Clearly this passage is not about Israel, but about Messiah. I've never heard it argued otherwise, though the exact nature of Messiah seems to be a sticking point.

In Luke 4:18&19 Jesus reads from Isaiah 61:1&2 at the local temple and stops at this thought without continuing on. Then He declares that these verses are fulfilled in the hearing of it at that place and time.

In so doing He's seperating the natures and ministries of the Messiah, which isn't odd at all when discerning the meaning of oracles.

The visions of the prophets have been describled as looking at a mountain range so that the discription of peaks may seem to make them all closely clustered when in fact they are miles apart.

Subject: Re: Isaiah 53 = Israel? Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:21 pm

I always thought it was about Stryper

bom

Subject: Re: Isaiah 53 = Israel? Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:43 pm

LOL @ Gary. Isaiah 53 = Israel? Icon_lol

To be more specific, Stryper borrowed from Isaiah 53, of course.

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2 John 1:9-10 = Israel
Mat 10:23 = Israel
Luke 23:21 = Israel

If a man deny Christ he also denies the Father and is the children of satan

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