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rock4king

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PostSubject: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:58 pm

Thursday, August 28, 2008

An Open Letter To Gay Christians





When the secular community was asked what characteristic of the Christian community came to their minds first, the overwhelming response was, "Christians hate gay people."

Is that true? Do we hate "gay" people? Yes, probably.

We hate gay people, abortion, not being able to pray in school, and a host of other things. And, oh yeah. Obama.

Oh, we are usually very careful to point out that we only "hate their sin" at least that's the spin we usually use but most Christians hate gay people.

I have listened to the debate for years. I have been on the other side of it. I believed that people who were homosexual were condemned to hell. Then, I began to believe that they simply needed healing, and then they would become heterosexual and only then could they truly experience God's love. I preached that for years. I sent all of our "gay" people at Sanctuary to a ministry in California one that was staffed with "ex-gay" people. Then, a few years ago, the whole staff from that ministry admitted that they were never "healed" and all returned to their gay life style. To this date, I have never met anyone whom I believe is honestly healed. And I am not sure that is the point.

I had an interesting encounter several years ago that really threw me. I was explaining to a friend that he simply needed to trust God for his healing. He said, "Pastor Bob, no offense but you telling me that I need to become heterosexual is like me telling you that you need to become homosexual." The light went on. I got it.

I still don't have all the answers. Are people "born gay?" Do they become gay because of sexual abuse or a domineering mother? I am sure all of those things make a difference and I have met a number of people who were influenced by those things. But then, I have met a number of heterosexual people who suffered sexual abuse and a domineering mother. Go figure!

So, what is it like to live your life trying to love God, and all the while feeling like he hates you simply because you can't change your sexual preference? I have, to date, met MANY people who feel this way. And they have tried everything to change including suicide.

Is there a point where we stop judging and start loving? WWJD?

To the gay Christians reading this: I'm sorry. Sorry for the way we have treated you. Sorry that we made you feel less of a person. Sorry that we forced you to identify yourself by your sexuality because we have made it so much of an issue. Sorry that we made you feel that "God Hates Fags." Sorry that you have been the butt of our jokes. I am very sorry that we didn't truly represent God's unconditional love for you and Jesus' death on the cross for you whether you "change" or not.

I have some friends who are gay. When I began to see them as "whole" people, I began to realize what a gift they are in my life. I began to celebrate my faith with them unconditionally. As Jesus would. I am just so sorry I have learned these lessons so late in life![/url]

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gary

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switchbladeknitter

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:12 pm

This is a very good article. Before I was born again I was a fag hag (chick who hangs out with lots of gay guys) couse other places they call em fruit flies.
After I was born agin I felt torn. I know an older gay guy who is very religious and some younger gays who are religious and I it's like I know the bible condems homosexual behaviour but I know some gay people who are nicer kinder people than straight people i have known. I try to always go by hate the sin and not the sinner and not judge.
This is a very good reminder that Jesus died for all of us. Not just upright moral people. If salvation was only for those who are morally just I think a lot of us would be doomed.
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LadyRocker

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:20 pm

I've always stated that homosexuality is a symptom of a much bigger problem...sexual sin in general, which is why I don't have a normal debate, except to know that it is as much sin as adultery, fornication, etc. All of them ARE sexual sins and must be dealt with differently.

I'm currently in a situation where I left a church because a pastor took advantage of his position. It was not homosexuality, but it was another sin. He is denying it, but we all know better.

I have to say to Pastor Bob, I understand your frustration, and you'll have to pardon me for not completely being in agreement, here. Some people who have these tendencies are not meant to marry, or they just have a lot of things where they are expected to have relations with other people of the opposite sex. Some people can remain single, like Paul the apostle. People who struggle with this tendency will often stumble about with feeling like their nature (having more of a feminine for men, or masculine for women) is not often the way things should be. I don't understand this lifestyle, but I understand the need to feel loved by someone of a similar sex. It doesn't have to be sexual love. It just has to be love.

For what it's worth, I can agree to a certain extent, but not entirely, so I hope you understand.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:13 pm

yeah, that is a tough one.i mean, there have been so many christians, or "ex-christians" come out and admit they are gay.

we go to the bible, and it says in 1 corinthians 6:9 that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom. in this same passage, it also mentions fornucators, thieves, adulturers, idolaters, efeminate, thieves, drunkards, revilers, swindlers and so on...

in jesus' own words, he said that if you look upon a woman and lust after her in your heart, you have commited adultry. if you are angry with someone, you have murdered them in your heart. what do we do with this?! i cant think of one christian who does not STILL fall into this from time to time!

what about "hate sin, but love the sinner"? at which point are we to "expel the immoral brother"?

i am hetro, and i understand what it is like to lust. it is an ongoing battle for me, and one i often lose. it just sucks being alone, and honestly, finding someone who is not a christian would be easier. i dont want to feel that way.

anyhow, i too am at a loss in this issue. i cant just shun someone for being gay. i realize what a sinner i am.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:34 am

I dont care if a person is gay or not...just dont be gay in front of me or my children, dont brag about it, dont talk about the gay parade you was just at, dont try to give me rainbow pins, dont comment on another mans butt, just keep that crap to yourself.

In return I wont brag about the girls Ive bagged, I wont make out with a girl in public, I wont give you a Fish pin, I wont talk about any pro heterosexual parade ive been to or anything , and I will try not to comment on a girls butt. Oh yea and I wont pummel you with your own spleen unless you slip up and call me Honey.

see we can all live in peace.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:31 pm

Welcome to "Jim Burns' Police State!"

Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:54 pm

Its Jims Police state
OR
Marks Den of gay sexual perversion.
lol!
I just personally do not wish to see two men or two women geting it on in public no more than I want to see two people of opposite sex getting it on in public and in front of my children. Some things are best left in private. and some things are better stuck way back in the closet.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:06 pm

Your too much Jim! What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:03 am

LOL...i guess with most people God made them, then broke the mold, With me , he broke the mold , then made me LOL
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Tonnenator

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:37 am

Quote :
I wont talk about any pro heterosexual parade ive been to or anything

When and where, is the heterosexual parade? I wanna be in it!

Jim, you and I can build a big float with a big, black and white rainbow.....(since it's such a black & white issue ha ha)....

Good Lord can you imagine the caterwauling and kvetching that would go on, if there was a "Straight Pride Parade" in downtown Columbus?

Couldn't you just see them leaving "Straight Pride" banners up all up and down High Street, all summer?

LOL!

afro afro
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:45 am

it would honestly be banned....Heteros would not be allowed to hve a parade, it would be called a hate crime.
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Son_of_Issachar

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:37 pm

Flame Me...Ban Me...Whatever!!

"Gay Christian" is an oxymoron!!

I do not hate the homosexual, but I do not owe them an apology! I owe them the truth of urging them to repent and flee from the wrath to come {actually it is almost here} because of their sin!

Has anyone seen the youtube video where gays attacked an elderly woman protesting the Propositon Whatever # {Banning Gay marriages}? The elderly woman was holding a cross.. The gay protestors knocked it out of hands and then begin to stomp/trample the cross!!

Who's hating who now???

Scripture does not allow one to be gay AND Christian...Are you listening Clay Aikens???

Yes....A hetrosexually promiscous person is just as wrong as the homosexual person, but I don't see immoral persons attacking {or shouting down} others like the homosexuals do..

I am SICK and TIRED in this country being accused of being hateful because you call sin "sin" and urge people to repent...I bet John the Baptist would not be on Oprah!! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:52 pm

Gays can indeed be christians, they are forbidden however from acting out homosexually. A great disservice has been done to homosexuals by evangelicals, they have been told God will make them "straight" if they submit to Him, this is rare if it ever happens at all.

Furthermore one of the reasons you don't see your average garden variety promiscuous person protesting anything is probably because they have not been persecuted, beaten and killed as gays have.

Let me also assure you that Clay is not listening to you, nor should he.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:58 pm

If they do not "act out" their homosexuality, how are they homosexuals? You can not be a thief and not steal...

Does not the Bible teach that even if you think "homosexual thoughts" {whatever that might be}, you still have sinned....

What Scripture do you have that supports the concept of a "Gay Christian"?

You are limiting the power of God by saying that homosexuals can not change... I guess, the prostitute and the murderer can never be changed either!
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:07 am

WHile I do have ALOT of respect of Pastor Bob, I think he fell for bad reasoning when the gay friend stated that asked the gay guy to become straight was like God telling Bob or any hetrosexual to become a homosexual....Well, the faulty logic
is that God would NEVER tell someone to sin....so the gay guy's argument falls apart...
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LadyRocker

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:08 am

The Changeling wrote:
Gays can indeed be christians, they are forbidden however from acting out homosexually. A great disservice has been done to homosexuals by evangelicals, they have been told God will make them "straight" if they submit to Him, this is rare if it ever happens at all.

Furthermore one of the reasons you don't see your average garden variety promiscuous person protesting anything is probably because they have not been persecuted, beaten and killed as gays have.

In today's world, that is not exactly true, as it was in the '60's and early 70's during the era of "free love." Marriage wasn't exactly honored, and people began to live together rather than marry. So, for that time period, this is what it has come to. Now, the gay community wants their piece of the pie, so to speak. It's now commonplace for men and women to "live together" without being married. Sexual unions of any kind were not uncommon, and this was the mantra of that time and age. Times have changed and morals have been more relaxed.

Quote :
Let me also assure you that Clay is not listening to you, nor should he.

I'm not even sure why he "outed" himself, when it was obvious to anyone who was looking? Was it for publicity? More than likely. Which is what concerns me the most if you are obvious (We even knew the late Charles Nelson Reiley was, but did it make much difference?)
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:18 am

Having same sex attrations is not sin, and I'm not saying God can't do anything. To change one's sexual orentation is a miracle, and I believe miracles to be rare.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:27 am

Miracles do happen, Mark, and I will not discount them at all. It's happened in my family.

I have an ex who is gay. He's currently living with a man who's much younger and also blind. I'm sure they wanted to "marry," in this state. I feel bad for them, but at the same time, I couldn't in good conscience vote against the law that would restore marriage between a man and a woman in the state of California. They had to use the judiciary to force their "rights" on others, but citizens of the state of California wouldn't have it.

And what does that have to do with my ex? Well, just about everything. He's the dominant partner in the relationship right now, and that, in and of itself is seriously messed up.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:37 am

Im with you son of issachar....how can you be gay and a christian....you cant...period.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:02 am

I do believe in miracles, but as I stated, they are rare. Most of what we hear that are called miracles are a sham.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:04 am

Captain Henry wrote:
Im with you son of issachar....how can you be gay and a christian....you cant...period.

Using this logic we could ask how can you be a nazi or a racist and a christian....you can't...period.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:54 am

You cannot be a nazi racist and a christian. That is plain and simple. IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE. Being racist (pack mentality)does not go against nature whereas being gay does... It depends on which you follow, the bible , or Nature..
According to the bible many things keeps you out of the grace of God. But nature is in itself pure. Its all from which mountain you are standing on.
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:13 am

Captain Henry wrote:
You cannot be a nazi racist and a christian. That is plain and simple. IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE. Being racist (pack mentality)does not go against nature whereas being gay does... It depends on which you follow, the bible , or Nature..
According to the bible many things keeps you out of the grace of God. But nature is in itself pure. Its all from which mountain you are standing on.

Your avatar is gay! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:20 am

No, because that would mean I was gay. I most certainly am not.
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Son_of_Issachar

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PostSubject: Re: Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...   Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:35 am

Again, Changeling, I ask for Scriptures to prove that being homosexual AND Christian is acceptable to God. I base all of my beliefs on the Bible {No, I do NOT want to argue/discuss WHICH Bible, yadda yadda yadda!!}. IF Scriptures teaches an act or an attitude is a sin, then it is...

Along the lines of nature of which Capt. Henry posted, a huge chunk of the problem is how we now view sex....Sex was never really intended as a means of "sharing love and emotional bonding" {THough that is a good and positive thing}. Sex was intended as a means of populating the earth
and creating families...If sex did/does not result in creating
more humans, then sex is not really fulfilling its purpose...
How would homosexuals "reproduce"? If nature followed its course, they would die out.

I do not advocate any type of violence against a homosexual person and I do not even like using slurs when discussing homosexuality. I even agree that "what's name?"..phelps? has got it all wrong...

However, what God calls sin is sin...and if one is living in a sinful lifestyle {including sinful but "acted out" thoughts} that person is not a Christian....

What did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery? "Go and SIN NO MORE! Adultery is just as much a sexual sin as homosexuality.

I do not want to get into an endless argument over this, but this fallacy had to be addressed. I posted simply to make that point and I am done. {I Hope }
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