Finishing what I started

Number of posts : 159 Registration date : 2007-07-12

I was on the phone with an old friend the other day. He had also been playing at "Calistone" (as it has been now dubbed) and told me that he had been grieved by something I had shared from the stage, and as we spoke he brought up a good point which ironically enough was very close to the point that I had wanted to make before I was cut off, and so as sort of a matter of “clean-up” for any who may have been in attendance I’d like to finish what I had set off to say.

As a matter of background, this was not actually during the performance. This was something that happened while doing a brief sound check as we came on stage.
Something wasn't quite right with the monitors and so while the guys worked hard to figure it out I took advantage of an open mic.
Of course once they got to a certain point it was time for me to be quite and let them finish up…but I, myself, never got to finish up.

My friend is very concerned about the issue of holiness. He is of the opinion that many (most) who call themselves believers will be going to Hell because they are unwilling to keep God's commandments.
Where we part company is in the belief that "enduring to the end" means that our salvation is a moment by moment thing that is never really obtained until we are sized up in the end based on our performance. In effect, no one is ever really "saved".

As he spoke and I listened, I interjected here and there to remind him of certain points of which we are all aware that will in time bring down the logic behind this common heresy.
I know him well enough to understand how he got there and have known for years that the Lord would be speaking to him on the topic of holiness eventually. He has had some "bad Kool-Aid", but he will recover.

However, I have found that it is always important to carefully listen to any rebuke and to consider it's merit even if portions of it are easily dismissed. "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" as the saying goes.
And so, as follow-up to what my friend had perceived as an endorsement for "Easy Believism" I'd like to publicly clarify my position to anyone who may have been in attendance.

His cage had been rattled by the comment that God is rich in mercy and grace, and that our works will not be the reason we get to Heaven. This is where I had been interrupted and I see nothing wrong or heretical in that statement, however, this was not the point I had wanted to make. Others had already spoken on the topic of holiness that day and my feeling is that while motivation is good, practical instruction needs to follow.

One of the greatest revelations God has re-affirmed in my own life, to which my friend was in full agreement, is the power and the truth of God's Word. Out of context there are people who want to claim homes and cars and manner of property in the name of Jesus citing various verses about the blessings available to us who believe.

Oddly enough, the break down seems to come when we start to speak of holiness. For when we get to the topic of holiness these same people who are willing to stand on the power of God's Word for personal gain are quick to hide behind verses about the grace of God and Paul's personal struggles with sin.

What if we were to flip this on its head?
What if we were to look at the thorn in Paul's flesh, the life of poverty most of the disciples endured, the horrific deaths of the martyrs, all as examples of what life just might look like for people who wish to walk closely with God…and in contrast to personal gain, Christ becomes my righteousness in a dynamic way! I can be faithful because Christ is my faithfulness.

When all is crashing in around me I can be clear and at peace for I have the Mind of Christ! I can overcome any sinful behavior and live in full accordance with the law, not because I have the power, but because He who is sinless dwells in me!

See what I'm saying? The righteous deeds are not what gets me there, they are the fruit and evidence of the Holy Spirit's work in my life! And this is where the Western Church and our American Dream, the pursuit of happiness, has perverted the gospel. Jesus is not the means to an end. Jesus is the "end" and the joy is merely an evidence of that "end".
It isn't difficult to discern which of these two perspectives is, "loving the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and strength", and which amounts to pure selfishness.

If the thing that brings the greatest joy to my heart is pleasing the Father, then I'm seeking, knocking and asking for the things that please my Father's heart.

So let me end by saying that I am not promoting "personal holiness" as an end to itself. This is not about scoring "brownie points" as some might imagine. I'm not working, "to get in good with the big guy..." That was the mistake the religious leaders of Jesus day had made. It will require humility to obtain the power to overcome, and the fruit will be a grateful/gracious heart.

Again the goal is learning to love God. And what pleases the Father's heart is when we, in faith, allow the Spirit to rule and reign. Holiness is what that looks like…and love, and grace, and mercy.

If this evidence is at work in your life then you are already secure in your salvation and you don't need any arguement of men to make you feel better. Wink

Subject: Re: Finishing what I started Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:48 pm

Good points all around. I have always said in my own life, "We do not do good deeds to earn our salvation. We do good deeds to reflect our salvation." I had someone once tell me that God does all the work and we don't do anything. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Holiness requires a mindset that we WANT to do good because He is good.

Subject: Re: Finishing what I started Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:36 pm

LadyRocker wrote:: "We do not do good deeds to earn our salvation. We do good deeds to reflect our salvation." I had someone once tell me that God does all the work and we don't do anything. Nothing could be farther from the truth! Holiness requires a mindset that we WANT to do good because He is good.

Very good points Dave! I was actually glad you addressed it at Cstone because it brought some balance...and you got to drive the point home Smile

Thanks for sharing!

Lia, you make some good points too, but i disagree on something you said. I actually believe as your friend said. It's all about surrender, it has nothing to do with us. And as Dave said, it's in the fruits. We are holy because of God working in us if we allow Him. The fruits we have are because of His work in us, not because of our mindset. And if we do have a WANT to do good mindset, it's because God put it there.

In the words of Rich Mullins: "We are not saved because we're good. We're good because we're saved."

Number of posts : 159 Registration date : 2007-07-12

Again...balance...Gary and Lia, thank you and about what the "mind set" is, after walking with the Lord for a few years what experience has taught me (and yes, I know not to lean on personal experience Wink

) is that our "want" to serve God can be cooled by this world. But God is faithful to "wake us", again, if we are willing to be awakened.

This is about love. Love and Passion.
What we have been taught is that all the commandments will be kept up if we merely make love the priority.
But I have been "in love" and I have "loved" and I have known what it is to be "loved" and yet feel as though loving me is a burden.

When people are "in love" passion is there and it is demonstrative. It can not be fabricated, but it can be cultivated.
Old married types may have the strongest of bonds, real deep and abiding love, and yet lack the passion. And this lack of passion can lead to a type of neglect.

That wife that would never dream of leaving her husband may indulge in a flirtatious relationship and while she sees no harm in it because she has a life long commitment she intends to uphold, her husband might still be hurt by this. And, if she were honest with herself, she would know that.

Jesus is always here for us.
The Holy Spirit is always wooing us.
The Father is always longing for that deeper relationship.
We are the ones who grow cold. And just like that ol' married couple, if we're honest with ourselves we are the ones who are responsible for that lack of passion.

What that wife is experiencing in her flirtation is an excitement she no longer feels with her husband, but for the passion to be renewed is a choice she makes. Not to invent a passion that doesn't exist, that would be disingenuous.
As she chooses to "know" the man, all the feelings that once made her heart go pitter-pat will all come rushing back as she re-discovers the man she's truly loved all along.

God is the same God you had fallen so completely in love with before, and the choice we make is to grow in our understanding of and intimacy with our Lord.
From that springs the passionate love that makes surrender possible.
And that surrender is genuine, heartfelt, sincere and pleasing to the Father's heart.
That is the "work". Not to uphold the commandments, but to continuely grow deeper and deeper in Love with Jesus. Wink