Catholic and Protestant discussion

Any time any denomination makes this statement, I have to ask how it lines up with the following scripture passage:

From I Corinthians 12 (KJV)

12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14For the body is not one member, but many.

15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Sadly, I have met several people who were atheists, Wiccans and the like, or people who just won't go to church, and one of the excuses they use is, "Christians can't even get along with each other - why would I want to be a part of that?" And to that, I have nothing to say. Why? Because they're RIGHT.


I mean, of course I have something to say, I tell them that you can't judge Jesus based on the ignorance of His children, that it's totally unfair, and you wouldn't want people judging you based on how ignorant people who know you act, right?

It's like judging a celebrity based on their papparazzi. It's ignorant.

But the sad truth remains, that they are right. Christians treat each other like dirt for the most part. We chew each other up and spit each other out in plain view of unbelievers. We argue, fight and debate, and call our church the "one true church".

Truth be known, the Jews are really the "true church". However, Jesus chose to include the rest of civilization in his grace. Aren't you glad?

Now......I would like to know why the Catholic church has been called "the one true church" by some people on here, how that statement lines up with the passage above, what scriptures in the Bible allegedly back that statement up, and how that statement isn't divisive, cruel, hateful or harsh. I would also like to know where Jesus made that statement.

And let's make sure we're kind and polite to each other so that Peacethroughx doesn't have to put the smackdown on anybody.

The Catholic Chuch believes it is the Church founded by Christ, built on Peter, Martin Luther is viewed as a heretic, his apostacy has led to the plethora of denominations you have in Protestantism. The Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is the Church, the Body, the Bride of Christ. The Church recognizes "seperated brethren" in so much of their ignorance of the truth, and the validity of the sacraments they hold to. As far as the montra "show me that in the bible", a Catholic is under no obligation to do so, as the Church does not hold to "sola scriptura", Sacred Tradition is equal to Sacred Scripture. BTW, you have your bible courtesy of the Catholic Church!

The Changeling wrote:

The Catholic Chuch believes it is the Church founded by Christ, built on Peter, Martin Luther is viewed as a heretic, his apostacy has led to the plethora of denominations you have in Protestantism. The Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is the Church, the Body, the Bride of Christ. The Church recognizes "seperated brethren" in so much of their ignorance of the truth, and the validity of the sacraments they hold to. As far as the montra "show me that in the bible", a Catholic is under no obligation to do so, as the Church does not hold to "sola scriptura", Sacred Tradition is equal to Sacred Scripture. BTW, you have your bible courtesy of the Catholic Church!

I love you.
jk..err, kinda.

you have a lot of valid points Tonne.
think of this though: Jesus told peter that he was the rock on which Jesus would build his church...this meaning that he is the head of the church, agreed?

so I would take that to mean we are to listen to what Peter said, would not you?

and as far as pulling from the KJV.....i have'nt read anything from it. do you realize that james removed parts of the bible?
err, do you choose to believe that?

tonnenator wrote:

Now......I would like to know why the Catholic church has been called "the one true church" by some people on here, how that statement lines up with the passage above, what scriptures in the Bible allegedly back that statement up, and how that statement isn't divisive, cruel, hateful or harsh. I would also like to know where Jesus made that statement.

well.....it's not that Jesus said that. there wern't other branchs of the christian church then!
i am not a good catholic. so i do not know any scripture to pull from ATM. but i can say that all religions sprung from the catholic church, i can say this because it was founded at 0A.D.haha, make sense? it was founded right after easter (built on st. peter) and everything else came after.

now now, devicive and cruel?
it isn't that bad. catholics are accused of being Mary worshipers and told that they will go to hell everday! my own GRANDMOTHER thinks im gonna go straight to hell!

harsh, maybe, but hey...even Jesus was harsh

Martin Luther was labeled a heretic
Jesus was labeled a heretic
Christians were once persecuted for their belief
True Christians still are.....
Sounds like the work of one singular person....Satan Inc.

and.....that's all you have to say on it?
haha

Panzer wrote:

Martin Luther was labeled a heretic
Jesus was labeled a heretic
Christians were once persecuted for their belief
True Christians still are.....
Sounds like the work of one singular person....Satan Inc.

Lame analogy, better put, Luther blasphemed the Church, the papacy and started his own religion wich has led to the plethora of "church" splits, all claiming sola scriptura and arriving at various interpratations! Why is this? No athority, everyone is left to their own interpratations, sheep w/out a shepard. Who are the "true christians"? This adage is used to describe a certain type of believer whom no one can know and is based on subjectivity.

I changed the name of this thread to be a little more generic. The whole point of having this thread is to EXPLORE the differences between Catholics and Protestants, without putting each other on the defensive or attacking each other's denomination.

A little history is in order: Waaaaay back on EZ board days, one poster, who was Catholic by choice, came back to visit this board. A discussion similar to this had been started and he felt he could contribute well to those wanting to know the history of the split away from the Catholic church.

Another poster started asking questions that seemed antagonistic, and very intelligently designed to put the Catholic on the defensive. Finally, the Catholic left because of the way he was treated by this Protestant, even though there were several of us who tried to keep the discussion civil.

Finally the Protestant revealed that he was indeed asking purposed questions to show the lie of the Catholic church and why it was the Great Whore of Babylon and that the Pope was the Anti-Christ.

Sooooo.... that is what I DO NOT want happening here. Check your heart for your motive and keep your emotions filled with the fruits of the Spirit. We can disagree with someone without tearing them apart with sarcasm and negative comments. We can learn from each other and our different denominations because, again, we are all walking together with Christ here

I have said this before, but some things bear repeating - we are called to show Jesus and His love to the world. How can we show the love of Jesus to a lost and dying world if we can't even show the love of Jesus to each other?

Make this a discussion Jesus and His Father would be proud of.

Yea, I don't want to tear anyone down here, I simply believe the Catholic Church is the Church, but I'm no hardliner who believes all Protestants are "hellbound heretics"!

The Changeling wrote:

Lame analogy,
.

Naaah, pretty accurate. Gotta stand by it.

Jesus was labeled a heretic
Christians were once persecuted for their belief
True Christians still are.....
Sounds like the work of one singular person....Satan Inc.

i like THIS part....makes sense.
but martin luther, i mean, to modify the word of God to suit your own purposes....that's pretty messed up.

and Peace; i think i speak for all of us when saying that that ISN'T the goal here....it's just a discussion

Devitio Atrum wrote:

and Peace; i think i speak for all of us when saying that that ISN'T the goal here....it's just a discussion

I absolutely believe that...

A persons faith is a very difficult thing to have a discussion about because it is so personal and paramount to them. So I see the following things happening on a discussion about something of this magnitude.
1. People will bend and not really post what they TRULY believe to keep from offending someone.
2. Tempers will fly and feelings will be hurt.

I see #1 as being the biggest problem with a discussion about different faiths on a christian site. Temper is #1 on a non christian site. Just statistics, that is what basicly runs my life now, statistics lol.

I have seen this on every bi-faith discussion.
It is a fact that some of us have a problem with tact as a conversation goes into length when it comes to stating something they 100% truly believe in.

How about this, Panzer? How about I do neither one. Especially considering that my husband and my ministry, Generation Actz, is all about bringing unity between the denominations, and we've seen it work, yes with Catholics involved, too, and Baptists, Pentecostals, Nazarenes, etc.

Basicallly what you do is, lay down your preconceived notions and hardline statements, and just worship Jesus together and get to know them on a face to face basis....which is what we can't do here, but we can do it in spirit.

"I simply believe the Catholic Church is the Church, but I'm no hardliner who believes all Protestants are "hellbound heretics"!"

That statement was a dichotomy. It contradicted itself. How can you say that the Catholic church is "the church", and then include all the other denominations in it? If we're not part of "the church", then we are hellbound heretics. You may as well have just said, "Well, you're all hellbound heretics, but you're actually not hellbound heretics".

As far as who the head of the church is, it's Jesus Christ.

And as far as God's Word goes, "The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the Word of God lasts forever".

Many times when asked to quote something from the Bible to back up a belief, many people balk because they don't even know their scripture that they say they believe in. Then they use excuses like well the bible has been translated so many times, etc, etc, etc.

Then comes the question of do you believe in God's ultimate sovereignty, or not. Either you do, or you don't. If you do, then His Word is all good, to the point that it needs to be, regardless of the translation, or of what "man has done to it". The basic message is still there, at least to the point of what God wants to be there, that is IF He's ultimately sovereign (all powerful). If He's not all powerful in your belief, then I don't know what to tell you.

As far as Catholics not believing in the Bible as the 100% inerrant Word of God.....I don't know what church you're going to, brother, but that ain't what my husband and his siblings were taught in catechism. They must have changed that, or something.

Which does bring me to a few good points.

If the Catholic church is the "one true church", how come we usually look for somebody who says they have a "new revelation from God", as being a heretic, and yet if the pope says a belief has changed, then it has, and everybody accepts it as being true?

And why would people accept words out of a mortal man's mouth as God's Word, and yet not accept the bible, which was written by mortal men inspired by God? That doesn't make any sense.

Another thing.........you are telling me, that your priest told you.........that the Catholic church is the only true church, and that all attenders of all other churches are not "true" christians............correct?

I would highly suggest finding another Catholic church, and asking another priest.........or several priests.......because every single one of them I've met would never make such a statement.

And what about charismatic Catholics? Are they heretics, too?

Did you know the word Catholic means "christian"? So in all actuality, that means all churches are "catholic" if they believe and follow Jesus.

Okay I'll give you guys a chance to answer my questions now.

Sorry if I overwhelmed anybody.

:-)

Luv,
Tonya

well let's start by getting this bit out off the way...

Tonnenator wrote:

And what about charismatic Catholics? Are they heretics, too?

Quote :

"I simply believe the Catholic Church is the Church, but I'm no hardliner who believes all Protestants are "hellbound heretics"!"

i don't recall anyone saying that....no one accused anyone of being a heretic.

Quote :

Basicallly what you do is, lay down your preconceived notions and hardline statements, and just worship

i have very few hardline beliefs..but I do believe that the catholic church is the truest church (sound better does it?) other than that, i'm very open minded.

Quote :

And why would people accept words out of a mortal man's mouth as God's Word, and yet not accept the bible, which was written by mortal men inspired by God? That doesn't make any sense.

woah woah woah.
i never EVER said that, i just reread my post and i think it was a taad confusing....let me clearify; King James took out parts of the bible....this, in my feeble opinion, was part of the cause of the protestant reformation. so.....basicly, what is happening, is that most of the population (98% in my area!) is reading, teaching, and living by the word of God, modified by man. This is the only reason i would say that the catholic church is the true(est!) church. She is untainted by man.


and as far as that comment about the Pope.....yeah.
we don't turn around and find a new god every time the old guy shakes his head! we look to im for guidance and council..just like using a preacher as a counsilor, only, he bears the apostolic procession..which basicly means the symbol of st peter's leadership

wow.
i spent a lot of time typing....i hope this one was less confusing than he last

Um....you wasnt talking to me when you was talking about the catholic church was you, you know about it being the only church....I didnt say that LOL, and I dont in any way believe that , .....Just wanted to make sure you wasnt confusing me with someone else ...hehe.

So, if we dont go to the one true church, does that mean we are not saved?

well..that's not for me to judge....but i think that if you live your life as jesus would then probablly so.

but on the other hand...is not it said in scripture that you must eat of my flesh and drink of my blood if you want to have life everlasting?

so...idk, but i think so, yes.

Quote :

.....is all about bringing unity between the denominations, and we've seen it work, yes with Catholics involved, too, and Baptists, Pentecostals, Nazarenes, etc.

Basicallly what you do is, lay down your preconceived notions and hardline statements, and just worship Jesus together and get to know them on a face to face basis....which is what we can't do here, but we can do it in spirit.

Bravo! Beautiful words...

Quote :

As far as Catholics not believing in the Bible as the 100% inerrant Word of God.....I don't know what church you're going to, brother, but that ain't what my husband and his siblings were taught in catechism. They must have changed that, or something.

NOONE, Catholic or not, made the statement that Catholics do not believe the Bible as the 100% inerrant Word of God.

What WAS said was that Catholics do not believe in Sola Scripture, which means "by Scripture Alone". This is strictly a Protestant belief. The Catholic church holds that the Bible IS INDEED the 100% inerrant Word of God and holds ALL truth for salvation through Jesus, but that we, as people, need the interpretation (past, present, and future since it is a "living" Word) of it from His Holy Father, the Pope. They believe he holds that authority from God Himself, through St. Peter.

This is the major difference between Catholics and Protestants as far as I can tell. There are many others, but this is the biggie.

Now I am going to use this as an example of WHY good, loving people can possibly turn vicious and biting in discussing different faiths.

MISQUOTES. Read what the person wrote carefully. Do not reword it or re-interpret what is said. Take what is said at its face value. If you do not know EXACTLY what is meant, ASK the person to rephrase differently so you can understand.

Quote :

Did you know the word Catholic means "christian"?

Actually, it means "universal", as in the "Catholic Church" being the universal church - ALL CHristians, ALL followers of Jesus, everywhere. That's why it was such a big deal to break away from the Catholic church - it meant you were leaving God Himself.

Quote :

Another thing.........you are telling me, that your priest told you.........that the Catholic church is the only true church, and that all attenders of all other churches are not "true" christians............correct?

Pope Benedict said this himself in one of his first public addresses. He later apologized for being unclear about the eternal destination of the Church's "separated brethren", but yes, indeed, that's what our new Pope believes.

And I know MANY a Catholic who believes this. I just lovingly tell them, "Well, I guess we'll know for sure when we reach Heaven!" and leave it as that.

Quote :

Um....you wasnt talking to me when you was talking about the catholic church was you, you know about it being the only church....I didnt say that LOL, and I dont in any way believe that , .....Just wanted to make sure you wasnt confusing me with someone else ...hehe.

No, Jim, our representing Catholics are Mark (Changeling) and Victor.

Quote :

The Catholic church holds that the Bible IS INDEED the 100% inerrant Word of God and holds ALL truth for salvation through Jesus, but that we, as people, need the interpretation (past, present, and future since it is a "living" Word) of it from His Holy Father, the Pope. They believe he holds that authority from God Himself, through St. Peter.

VERY well said.
like, theres no way i couldve put that any better.
and you're not even catholic.
which makes you a very cool person i think.

I made no self contadictory statement by what I said Tonne, I simply said I was no hardliner who believes most Protestants will probably go to Hell. I am not fully persuaded that the Catholic Church is the true Church, but I am becomming so persuaded, I'm still learning and researching. This is what the Chuch teaches about those outside the Church, my views seem to be in line.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

I am studying the change of the Bible when the Protestants broke off - why Martin Luther and others dropped seven full books and huge sections of others when creating the Protestant Bible? I mean, these were already considered Canonized Scripture, and he pushed to get them out.

Several books that Luther wanted out, but others made them stay are Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation. If Martin Luther felt these were not good enough for us as Protestants, I clearly question his judgment on the ones he DID manage to get taken out. Can you imagine our New Testament WITHOUT James or Hebrews?

I made a point to buy a Bible with the Apocryphal and Deuterocanonical books in them (Yay E-bay!) and I am reading through them. Some of them are amazing - I LOVE the Prayer of Manasseh! It is so heartfelt as he prostrates himself before God and fully repents of his sin.

Any comments or input on this? Like I said, I am researching now and it is quite fascinating for me.

I have yet to read through the other books, I need to get me a good "Catholic Bible", anyone interested in a good deal on "The MacArthur Study Bible?"

PeacethroughX wrote:

Any comments or input on this? Like I said, I am researching now and it is quite fascinating for me.

i have a comment!!!!!!!!!!

there were more than 7 taken out....and a few of them, you will find, hold the foundation for several catholic beliefs, including purgatory and such....but i like that you have an open enough mind to research this stuff!! i havent met too many people who are willing to do that

Quote :

Any comments or input on this? Like I said, I am researching now and it is quite fascinating for me.

i have a comment!!!!!!!!!!

there were more than 7 taken out....and a few of them, you will find, hold the foundation for several catholic beliefs, including purgatory and such....but i like that you have an open enough mind to research this stuff!! i havent met too many people who are willing to do that


(very sorry guys...my sister logged on on this puter..sorry for any spam she dropped off =[ )

I watched this guy on EWTN the other night, great Catholic Apologist, quite funny as well!

http://www.mikecumbie.org/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HEIHJQrOFM&feature=related