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:) its over today Empty
PostSubject: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeTue Nov 04, 2008 1:42 pm

Very Happy After today we can see in which manner we are screwed, but all the arguing on other boards and between friends can end.....Plus no more lies on tv from both sides.....Just plain everyday NORMAL lies from the electric God. clown
Gods Help US ALL
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switchbladeknitter

switchbladeknitter


Female Number of posts : 804
Age : 46
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Age : 29 and holding!!
Registration date : 2007-11-13

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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeTue Nov 04, 2008 11:05 pm

funny Jim but true.
We're at a terminal now and there's a few people glued to the tv...waiting...watching...wondering
I'm like pffft I'm just here to do laundry and play on the computer while I wait.

Keep telling yourself when I wake up everything will be ok

it's like the previews for the first Alien vs Predator movie said "Whoever wins-we lose"
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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeFri Nov 07, 2008 4:55 pm

Hello you all,

it has been a while (I guess 4 years Smile ). I am a christian thrash metal freak (since the times of Deliverance and so on) and I live in Germany. Today I have logged in the first time since 4 years. So please forgive me, if I am not informed about your former discussions.

The reason I write is the election. As myself so many christians in Europe couldīt understand the political thoughts of most of the christians in the US.

Would you please explain me, why the following issues are so important for you, while the others not.

a) abortion (not mentioned in the bible)
b) soldiers (Christ said if someone hurts your face, donīt fight back, live by the sword, die by the sword ...)
c) death penalty (god gives life men have not the right... Christ didīt preach the death penalty)

I canīt understand your point of view, when I read the New Testament and look at the life of Jesus Christ. It sounds like nonsens to me, the image of Jesus of Nazareth as a war hero, who sends people to death.
The Jesus of the New Testament should be our model.

If you want to, please explain a republican view to me.

I am glad most US citizens voted Obama Smile
He represents so much of that I love about the US,
the dreams of your forefathers.


Greetings of Germany

caelos
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Rastus

Rastus


Male Number of posts : 876
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Location : haven't seen a sign for miles
Registration date : 2008-02-22

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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeFri Nov 07, 2008 5:30 pm

i think you must've been using a translator, or else are a little rusty on English. so I'll try to answer, sorry if i misunderstood your questions.

Quote :
a) abortion (not mentioned in the bible)

abortion is murder.
from the time of conception a human is a human.

Quote :

b) soldiers (Christ said if someone hurts your face, donīt fight back, live by the sword, die by the sword ...)

I don't think God would want us to stand aside while other countries kill millions of innocents.

Quote :

c) death penalty (god gives life men have not the right... Christ didīt preach the death penalty)

McCain was against the death penalty. most christians i know are AGAINST it.
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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeFri Nov 07, 2008 8:08 pm

America is one messed up place....there was a time when it wasnt........there is no excuse.
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PeacethroughX

PeacethroughX


Female Number of posts : 585
Age : 68
Location : Charlotte, NC
Registration date : 2007-05-24

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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeSat Nov 08, 2008 9:18 am

Welcome Caelos! I do remember you from years ago and I am glad you decided to venture back.

To start: No, the word "abortion" is not anywhere in the Bible. But babies and children are mentioned throughout the Bible and the time of their beginning (the start of life) is recognized in the womb. Throughout ALL scripture, life is recognized at conception - some babies even have been given names, gender, character and/or personality traits while still in the womb.

In scripture and for most Christians, babies in the womb are recognized EQUALLY with babies outside the womb. A six month old baby IN the womb is loved and protected the same as a six month old baby OUTSIDE the womb - location does not matter - it is a living child.

It was MAN, not God, who came up with words like "tissue" and "fetus" instead of baby or child to depersonalize the living aspect of that child within the womb.

THAT is the basis of most Christian viewpoints of abortion and that is why it is a hotly debated topic. In fact, for some it becomes the MAIN issue for choosing a president.

Next point: soldiers. Maybe you're asking about why we even have a military, if we are a Christian nation? Well, you got me there. I'm as confused as the next on that one.

We only have Old Testament writings of God's use of military force to get things done. The New Testament has NO mention of military force ordered by God at all - only Jesus' words of peace and reconciliation. He didn't speak against the military, and the only recorded interaction was with the Roman centarion asking Jesus to heal his servant.

Because of this, my PERSONAL opinion is that the military should be used for defense only. Sorry, Victor, we disagree on this. Jesus never sent any disciples out to protect people from being killed - He sent them out to reconcile them to God, the Father, and even warned His disciples they may be killed in the process. He also never told them to take up arms to defend themselves. So how much we defend ourselves is probably a pretty lengthy discussion with LOTS of different opinions!

The death penalty: It was decreed in the Old Testament by God Himself - it is part of the Law and the Old Convenant. The New Testament repealed the Law to give us Jesus and a New Convenant of Grace through the final sacrifice of Jesus Himself. Jesus died a substituary death for ALL mankind for ALL sins.

BUT... Jesus died, was executed, using the Laws of the times. He submitted to the Law, to get His Father's work done. I personally, have a hard time reconciling the death penalty with Jesus' words. I am sure there will be others with different viewpoints. Question

So, yes, we Americans are a hugely divided lot when it comes to the Bible, our Laws, and our elections. You will get many different answers from many different Americans, some Bible-belieing Christians, some not.

Hope you stick around...sunny
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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeSun Nov 09, 2008 4:28 pm

Hi and thank you for the „welcome“ and your answers.





Sorry that I canīt express myself in a way that is easy to read, but English is not my native, first language.Rolling Eyes



First of all:

I agree on a lot that was said.

The main point is (in my opinion) the interpretation of scripture.

I interpret the scriptures in a different way.

Verses have to subordinate below the center of the scriptures.

(Similar to your interpretation: the old covenant is subordinated, or is the past, the new covenant is more important)

Let me tell you, what I mean:





a) The Focus: the centre of the scriptures

Please tell me, if I am wrong, but the main subjects, of conservative – republican voting – Christian in the US are abortion, gay people, sex before marriage (all sexual ethics).

Jesus was not focused on sexuality that much (it is hard to show lots of verses dealing with that issue), but he was absolutely focused on healing and encouraging the weak and oppressed (there are a lot of lessons and verses dealing with that issue). The center of his teachings is grace and charity.



Zelote people wanted him to fight against the oppressors, the romans (and the upper class in the temple), but he did not!!!



The center of his speech is the sermon on the mount: the beatitudes, not to resist an evil person and the love for enemies.



This is the center point of his teachings. I have not heard words like that from republican Christians very often.

MY OPINION: THEY ARE FOCUSED TOTALLY WRONG!













b) The right to kill



I agree with you on the point of abortion.



God gives life and takes life away.

We are all created by God. He wants us to live.

We should not end a life that was created by God.









The point of soldiers:



I move a step forward and know about the explosiveness of MY words.

We should not end a life that was created by God.

The enemy defends his beliefs like we do.

He is also created by God. We shall not kill.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies.



Jesus with a gun in hand shouting:

“Blessed is the gunfire that kills the enemy!” is absurd.

That will cause more gunfire and more resistance.



We shall become peacemakers, but how?

Jesus changed the world with love, not with a militant action.

He was killed and did not kill.





The point of the death penalty



We must not end a life that was created by God.

Only God has the right to give life and to end life.

We are all created equal, we are brothers.

A criminal or desperado is still our brother, no matter what he has done.

Death penalty is based on the old covenant (eye for an eye), Jesus showed us according to the new covenant a new way.



No human being has the right to take life away.





Thank you for the debate.

Thank you for sharing my personal opinion and beliefes.

I hope that I was able to make my point of view

(in some cases german or european) clear.



I enjoy talking to you.rabbit

God bless you,

Caelos
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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeSun Nov 09, 2008 4:31 pm

Sorry for that long long space and cracy colour,
but my computer and the inetrnet went crazy Mad

Caelos
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PostSubject: Re: :) its over today   :) its over today Icon_minitimeSun Nov 09, 2008 6:32 pm

Its good to hear the views of someone NOT FROM America....Thank you for your post and explainations of your beliefs.
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